Obama

[lesliepear]

Ok, I am pro-Obama, but I just wanted to post some commentary on elections here.

In recent years it seems the campaign strategy of politicians has been to find negative things about the opponent and not stress their own positive things.

I think with Barack Obama they've had a hard time with this because he's relatively young and lived a fairly clean public and private life. First they found out that the pastor of the church he attended had very racist views. Just because his pastor has opinions and he attended the church doesn't mean he believes exactly the same thing on everything the pastor did. (As far as I know it wasn't a cult that brainwashed it's members). People chose houses of worship for many reasons not always based on the leader.

Now they are attacking him because he knew or served with Bill Ayres, a 60's radical terrorist on a committee on education (a common interest). Obama was 8 years old at the time of Mr. Ayres activies - he probably didn't even know what was going on then. If Obama was like myself, and found the 60's a fascinating time and wished he were older then - that still doesn't mean he'd approve of terroist tactics of the Weathermen. I think the 60's radicals are very different than Al Quida and other modern terriorists - their goals were different and I'm not sure their aim was to wantonly kill people in the name of their cause - they aimed to be more distruptive in general.

Comments

[harinakshi.livejournal.com]

You'd think, because they can't come up with anything that isn't lame, they'd concentrate on something besides mudslinging. Even the "bad" things about Obama, he seems pretty open about. Like drug experimenting and stuff. Can't get him like the whole thing with Clinton.

[dstroy.livejournal.com]

Meh. With logic like that, one could argue that McCaine "associates with terrorists" too because he has been keynote speaker at OCA fundraising events - OCA being Oregon Citizen Alliance led by hate-monger Lon Mabon who is well known around these parts. And they INTRODUCED him with praise for an Oregonian member who shot an abortion doctor in Wichita.

That said, it's a stupid irrelevant argument, as is almost all the rhetoric and distractions being flung from McCain's campaign at this point.
Frankly, he jumped the shark and everything since the Palin nomination has been discraceful.

Related:
http://www.slate.com/id/2202163/

[lesliepear.livejournal.com]

At this point the election is Obama's to lose (which I hope he doesn't).

[dstroy.livejournal.com]

I hope you are right, although I have little faith in the "rational" choices that Americans are prone to make.

[dstroy.livejournal.com]

hahaha- Hitchens referred to as a die-hard Obama fan is hilarious. I'm gonna guess you didn't actually read it.

There are plenty of conservative Republicans who are disgusted with McCain and his pseudo-running mate at this point - for example, Christopher Buckley

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2008-10-10/the-conservative-case-for-obama/

I'm hardly convinced this is another Carter. That said, McCain can't seem to stop talking as if it's 1980 and seems to be under the impression that he's Ronald Reagan at this point.

[dstroy.livejournal.com]

I am a moderate - and in fact, not an "Obama worshipper" as you characterize it, but when McCain picked Palin and sent a great big "Fuck You" message to moderates like myself, and the entire tone of his campaign flipped at that point too, yes, I changed my mind on how much I would feel confidence that he or the folks writing all his and his running mate's speeches are people I'd like to see in office.

His Palin pick was his first presidential act, and he wants me to believe that this was the one person he felt would be capable of running in his absense? No,I am sorry - this is not the same man I admired in 2002. The tone of his campaign has been anti-intellectual, name-calling, and generally about stupid crap like who is sexist and whether or not lipstick is a trademarked term that only Palin should be using.
He jumped the shark and has disgraced himself and his party at this point. I think if you watch anything besides FOX news you'd see that.
http://nymag.com/news/politics/powergrid/51016/

And as long as everyone is up in arms about picking someone with shady political ethics, how about that running mate who was in the midst of an investigation when he picked her? And the fact that the investigation concluded that she DID infact abuse her power. THIS is what we want our leaders to be like?
Maybe folks are just going to hope she'll make up for her lack of interest and experience by waiting for her to just surround herself in office with her middle-school classmates and buddies like she did in Alaska?


God forbid this man were to die and leave that woman in charge. And even less than her, what does this selection say about him?
I haven't heard intelligent argument for why I should NOT fear McCain in power.

[dstroy.livejournal.com]

oh HO! ZINGER!
Well, we know that this is what the writers for the McCain speeches are well known for these days.

As for "talking about Obama"
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/attytood/GOP_hits_rock_bottom_Calls_Obama_in_an_official_release_terrorists_best_friend.html
But yes, I referred back to McCain in my first reply, because it's a ridiculous tactic to take to call someone friends to terrorists in this way, because mcCain may as well call a pot a kettle black by that argument. It's a non-argument and doesn't need defending.

And I don't see making vague smarty-pants references to Carter as intelligent discussion either, because from my perspective you're the one calling names without a firm "grasp of the issues".

Love how you make a lot of assumptions about me when you know absolutely nothing about me just because I find McCain to be distasteful. And you pack in the insults too!
You forgot to mention that I'm a sexist and an elitist too. :P

[dstroy.livejournal.com]

So based on your presumption, should I therefore assume you're like one of these folks?



because seriously...

[lesliepear.livejournal.com]

Carter may have had his flaws, but there have been way worse presidents (of both parties).

(By the way Carter also graduated from the Naval Academy like McCain - but his major was Nuclear Engineering - for some reason that bit of information always impressed me.)

[lesliepear.livejournal.com]

Actually I think similarily about Bush. But you and I always disagree on politics (which I don't mind, I enjoy hearing different opinions)

We always disagree politically but anyway...

[lesliepear.livejournal.com]

My counterpoints

1. Did the pastor preach his views in church? If they were not expressed in that forum, he could be right in not knowing them. Or perhaps Obama didn't pay attention in sermons? Or perhaps he felt the pastors views were irrelevant to his own campaign?

2. Maybe Obama forgot he served with him? Or perhaps since Obama was a child during the 1960's, it didn't occur to him who he served with if they didn't discuss other stuff other than board related topics. I'm on a local friends of the library group - I have no idea of the pasts of the other members and I'm not originally from here.

3. Yes, I agree both are terriorists. The 60's were different times than today though. Those terrorists started opposing the US Government because of the Vietnam war. Didn't most of their activity end in the 1970's once the US exited the war and it ended? Al Queda opposes the US for no reason than it exists I think.

4. If Ayres is unrepentant as you say, it's really his problem not Obama's. As far as I know the two of them are at most accquaintances, not best friends nor is Obama seeking advice from him. I probably have accquaintances myself who have done or do things I don't approve of.

5. The Obama - Acorn thing could be a case of bad judgement on his organizations part. Or someone COULD know someone. It isn't great, but not the most horrible thing done wrong ever.

Just to be fair the Democrats have dug up irrelevant stuff on McCain and Palin (especially since she has a short record). They brought up the fact Ms. Palin attended 5 colleges and McCain was at the bottom of his class at the Academy. Ms. Palin did graduate college and anyone who is accpeted to the Naval Academy has to be fairly intelligent, you do earn your way into it, and I believe it is well respected academically.

I still can't get why McCain chose Palin. I still think there were women in the Republican Party that would have helped his campaign much better than her - Olympia Snow (Maine Senator), Christie Todd Whitman (ex-NJ Governor) , Meg Whitman (eBay), Carly Fiorina (HP), Condoliza Rice etc.

Re: We always disagree politically but anyway...

[lesliepear.livejournal.com]

Ok...I'm basing my opinions of what I've heard - I may not have been paying attention to the whole story.

On Obama and Acorn, I did say someone may have known someone to get them involved and obviously Obama did :(

Re: We always disagree politically but anyway...

[steve98052.livejournal.com]

Obama is clean on ACORN.

Even ACORN is clean – it's been the victim of lazy employees who made up lots of names on registration forms. ACORN recognized that the forms were bogus, and fired those employees, and followed the law with the bogus forms: in some states they were required to turn in all forms (to prevent a registration organization from tossing forms if it thought someone would vote against its agenda), so they turned them in with notes marking them as presumed bogus, and I suppose just threw them away in states where they're not required to turn in all forms.

The ACORN thing was not, is not, and will not be voting fraud. It's registration fraud – but no one will ever vote those phony registrations.

Re: We always disagree politically but anyway...

[luscious-purple.livejournal.com]

I think Condi Rice has always said that she did NOT want the veep nomination. Snow and C.T. Whitman are much too moderate for the Republican base (sad to say). I mean, **I** would have liked those choices, but I am not a Republican anyway.

Re: We always disagree politically but anyway...

[lesliepear.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure McCain's choice of VP would have influenced me at all either, but Palin hurt him more than helped him. (She did help Tina Fey's career though!)

At least Obama did pick someone with political experience as a VP. It was a good choice for a relative newcomer like himself.

Re: We always disagree politically but anyway...

[steve98052.livejournal.com]

Actually, although I think Palin is a horrible choice, I think McCain would be even lower in the polls without her. She's a huge drag down on his poll numbers, now that people are discovering all the skeletons in her closet. But she's also been a huge boost to McCain's fund-raising, because she's an extremist kook and the extremist kook faction of the Republican party didn't trust McCain until he chose her. Now they're dumping tons of money on his campaign (although not nearly as much as Obama's supporters are sending him since she was chosen), and he can afford ads.

Without Palin, the only money McCain would have to spend would be loans from his wife – if she would be willing to throw money at a doomed cause. If she declined to lend the money, his campaign would be bankrupt. Sure, Obama probably wouldn't have as much money to spend without the inspiration of such an extreme VP opponent, but the ratio between his money and McCain's would be overwhelming.

Re: We always disagree politically but anyway...

[steve98052.livejournal.com]

I was on the board of a very small non-profit some years ago: the Seattle Astronomical Society, which had between 200 and 300 members and a four-figure budget. I know almost nothing about any of the people on that board, except for their interest in astronomy. If any of them had been members of a violent protest group* in the 1960s, I'd never know it.

Also, I've been to a bunch of house parties thrown as fund-raisers for political candidates, particularly for Washington-8th Congress candidate Darcy Burner. She goes to those things several times a month. I'm sure she barely knows most of the hosts. If I thought I could organize such a party, she'd be there – without any sort of background check to make sure I wasn't a terrorist when I was eight.

It's absolutely unreasonable to expect that Obama ever knew that the old professor who he met at a house party and a few board meetings had been involved in a violent protest group when Obama was a child.

* I think "violent protest group" is a much more accurate description of the Weather Underground than "terrorist group". They were aiming for chaos, not terror.

[allykatt.livejournal.com]

i'd also add that wright was not only obama's pastor, he was actually the man that he met that led him to church, to being saved. the man truly was his spiritual mentor - the reason he became involved in church at all was because of his attraction to this man and his teachings.

it's arguably sound to say that it might not be religiously motivated at all, rather politically motivated. but that doesn't help obama with the voters of faith - using a church to further your political career speaks badly about ones character.

and also that the ayers thing is a case of judgement. either he didn't know who was supporting him, what his past was, etc {which is unlikely, but not impossible} - which tells us that he didn't look into his people at ALL, or he knew who ayers was and what he did, but just didn't care. either way, to some of us it shows horrible judgment.